Editorial -- Livejournal Draws a Line in the Sand
- By Leva Cygnet
- Published 08/8/2007
- Fandom
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Leva Cygnet
View all articles by Leva CygnetTonight, Livejournal posted a response to tremendous fan outrage regarding the banning of users Ponderosa121 and Elaboration. To recap, these two artists were terminated when they posted smutty artwork of Harry Potter characters who may or may not have been underage. Livejournal's post on the subject is here but essentially they've made it clear (by actions as much as words) that they will not allow pornographic art depicting minors.
And on the surface this is an admirable goal. I have no problems with banning artists who actually do produce kiddy porn. Look: I think kiddy porn is utterly disgusting and the people who produce it are evil. And 'evil' is not a world I throw around lightly. I make absolutely no defense of folks who create dirty art of kiddies, be it drawn, CGI, or photographic. I don't care if the little children are real or not -- it's wrong. And I also hope that I'm correct in believing that most of fandom feels the same way I do.
(And I'm going to say right here, before people start hitting the comment button to respond without reading the rest of this editorial: I am not accusing Ponderosa and Elaboration of drawing kiddy porn. I'll touch on that more in a second.)
The problem with artwork based on speculative fiction is that appearances are not always what they seem and Livejournal is sometimes going to have one royal hell of a time figuring out what artwork represents a minor and what doesn't. They allow smut of adults, but not of "underage" characters. In trying to figure out which is which they are going to screw up and the wank is going to continue unless they institute some fairer policies on how they handle instances of questionable art. Banning artists for life for the first offense when a question exists as to the artist's intent is not a fair policy.
The first issue with determining age in artwork is figuring out by looking at it when a piece of art actually depicts a minor. A specific, common, example is of artwork based on anime and manga characters. Bishi style male characters often look significantly younger than they are, and many female anime characters look like little girls to Western eyes even if they're supposed to represent adults.
If somebody draws a nudie of, say, the anime character Himura Kenshin from Rurouni Kenshin, the artwork could easily be taken to be a representation of a minor by abuse staffers who are not familiar with the series. However, much of the series centers around Kenshin in his late twenties and it's only the art style that makes him appear younger.
For illustrative purposes, here's a link to a page of various (mostly clean) fan art drawings of Kenshin on Deviantart.com.
Even more realistic styles of art can have ambiguous ages and opinions of viewers can vary. For example, my personal reaction to Ponderosa's artwork was to say that Potter looked (slightly) underage. And yes, I squicked a bit -- porn just isn't my thing. However, there have been quite a few other people who claim he looks at least eighteen. Who's right? As Ponderosa herself pointed out in the comments on Melissa's article, here, it's not like you can ask Potter what age he was when his portrait was drawn. Ponderosa's style does leave his age open to interpretation.
Going by the "canon" age of characters also isn't possible -- for one, it's quite possible for an artist to draw younger characters all grown up, and for two, we're dealing with science fiction and fantasy. "Age of adulthood" in a speculative fiction universe can be a rather open question.
If somebody draws Buffybot and Spike, set a week after Buffybot was created, she's by definition minor -- she's not eighteen. (For that matter, Buffy was only sixteen when she had sex with centuries-old Angel on primetime TV.) I also seem to remember a large number of various alien races on Star Trek who became adults in extraordinarily short periods of time. I'm sure our readers can come up with some other examples. Feel free to start listing them. My point here is that we can't use "character's actual age" to determine if the character is a minor anymore than we can go by appearance.
There's also a third possible permutation and that is a character who looks like a child but isn't. An artist could draw vampire who looks fourteen but is actually fourteen hundred. The artist may have a story to back the age up, perhaps even something professionally published. If someone draws an image of the hypothetical 1400 year old teenage-looking vampire doing something naughty, is it kiddy porn or not? There is some interesting morality there, and I don't know what my answer is to that one. I'd honestly have to think about it. I'd be very curious to hear what my readers think about this.
The bottom line, however, is that Livejournal has decided that they're going to determine when a piece of artwork represents underage porn and ban users who post it. I can also guarantee that fans will disagree with some of their decisions. The wank, therefore, will continue. I don't envy Livejournal the job they've set out for themselves in determining what constitutes "underage" in relation to fan art, and I truly hope they've got a better idea about how to do it than I do.
Edit: to add that I'm not all that personally fond of porn depicting adults, either, but I respect and defend fanartists who want to draw it and fans who want to look at it. Livejournal has historically allowed porn and apparently still does -- at least as far as I can tell based on their very unclear communications.
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Comments
Comment #1 (Posted by Zanne)
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You make excellent points, and honestly, it's not the first time NC-17 material has been banned from a fandom server (example, fanfiction.net) and while fandom grumbles, they are for the most part very willing to comply and go take their toys somewhere else. LJ would not only not clarify that for MONTHS, but apparently, porn of purely fictional characters is more harmful than advocating eating disorders among teenagers.
http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241428.html?thread=12329748#t12329748
As someone who's struggled with anorexia, I can flat-out tell you right now the content in those comms are NOT supportive in a positive sense, they teach you how to starve yourself more. And it's not about merely "aspiring to be thin" as coffeechica so blithely phrased it speaking officially for LJ.
Comment #2 (Posted by barano)
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You rase very good points, especially the "looks like a minor but isn't one" part (and here I'd like to add the fact that many anime fandoms are based on a cast of 15-17 year-old characters who may or may not look their age - it's not easy to tell, in anime).
However, I'd like to draw your attention to this: http://synecdochic.livejournal.com/147625.html I'm not going to argue with you or Synecdochic or anyone (partly because I'm not a US resident and am no authority on US laws), but there's truth in what she writes - WE know that the characters we're looking at are not minors, but outsiders have no way of knowing that. And let's face it, we all know that there are many cases (although most of those don't apply to the mostly female-based fandom on LJ, except maybe shota fans) where "they're not really minors" is just an excuse. There's stuff on Japanese TV right now that wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere, because even though the characters are supposed to be high-schoolers, they look like grade schoolers, and they're obviously and shamelessly catering to the loli/moe otaku crowd with fanservice that borders on soft porn. But of course that's Japan. Anyway, my point is that the people in charge, not only of LJ but also other organizations, not to mention the law, are in a situation where they simply have to make blanket statements or they get lost in a million details. I think we can't expect them to "understand" something they're not part of, along with the majority of the population. I'm not saying overreaction is okay, I'm not saying it's okay to decide what is allowed and what is not in a way LJ has done, but I do think that if fandom expects "outsiders" to understand it, it should also be more understanding toward outsiders and the situation they're in.
Comment #3 (Posted by sovayfox)
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http://news.livejournal.com/100331.html?thread=62408171#t62408171
proof of livejournal supporting pro-anorexia communities. Live journal supports people who are actually encouraging harm which is a dangerous double standard.
Comment #4 (Posted by ladynorbert)
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Excellent article! You raise many good points, and are very clear.
Comment #5 (Posted by Suzene)
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Well done!
LJ's just opened a brand new can of worms for itself. The problem with using the "otherwise objectionable" as criteria for banning content is that they've made it clear that this is not a case of removing illegal content, just content that they don't approve of and don't wish to host. Which means that anything that they haven't banned from their service, they tacitly approve of. And that starts looking really ugly when coupled with their comments on the pro-anorexia journals...
Comment #6 (Posted by Yadis)
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Great point! I agree completely.
It seems as if the rights to have imagination and to express are threatened by unfair and arbitrary reasons. It's not about black or white. There are plenty of grey tones here, but Six Aparts acted as a blind :(
Comment #7 (Posted by Leva Cygnet)
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Regarding the pro-ana communities, one of my immediate reactions is that I would think that if some kid succeeds in starving herself to death and it's later learned that she got encouragement and how-to tips from Livejournal, and she's a minor -- and Livejournal was aware of the issue -- wouldn't that open them up to a lawsuit?
Comment #8 (Posted by dentelle_noir)
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My main concern was the blatant TOS violation by LJ themselves when they gave no notice, no warning, and no recovery time. According to their own TOS, they guarantee reviewed journals be given a warning e-mail 2 days in advance. There was no such warnings.
The other problem I am having is that LJ keeps citing the law, when it is BLATANT that law states that the server is NOT RESPONSIBLE or LIABLE for the content an individual client posts to their service.
If the problem was the art, why couldn't they warn her before banning for life? As far as Ponderosa goes, she has ALWAYS had appropriate warnings and used cuts so that her content was not available to users simply wandering by, and some of the argued-on content was friends-only and therefore not viewable by the general public.
LJ violated there own promises.
Comment #9 (Posted by an unknown user)
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What's really got me is the fact that LJ is allowing communities that advocate actual abuse of REAL children to remain and thrive on their servers. Read this article if you really want to be disgusted by something: http://www.greatestjournal.com/community/fandomtossed/61472.html
Somehow, fandom is supposed to be worse than this. I can't figure that one out at all.
Comment #10 (Posted by an unknown user)
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Oh, and one other important thing that deserves mention. LJ has now also decided that merely linking to material they consider offensive is a bannable offense:
http://violet-quill.livejournal.com/337040.html
How much more ridiculous is this going to get?
Comment #11 (Posted by an unknown user)
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This is getting ridiculous. We can all argue what's legal or not, and I do agree that fandom does automatically get its hackles up whenever it feels threatened. That's something we gotta change. But I for one am sick of being paranoid and worried that my friends will be deleted with no warning, It already happened once, who's to say it won't happen again?
Comment #12 (Posted by an unknown user)
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Did you catch that 6A may or may not have reported those fanartists to NCMEC?
http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241884.html?thread=12745948#t12745948
Comment #13 (Posted by Nathan)
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LiveJournal states that they accept all abuse reports, "regardless of the source", but that is an outright lie. If you see something abusive and it's not happening to you (but rather to someone else) and you're reporting on their behalf, they refuse the report - evidence be damned.
