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  • Published 12/31/1969
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Comments

Comment #1 (Posted by feywood) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2435/4mrij35vb8.png Screenshot of the offending comment
Comment #2 (Posted by Littleroo27) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Kanuck_kid/EPIC%20FAIL/burr1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Kanuck_kid/EPIC%20FAIL/burr2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Kanuck_kid/EPIC%20FAIL/burr3.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Kanuck_kid/EPIC%20FAIL/burr4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Kanuck_kid/EPIC%20FAIL/burr5.jpg
Comment #3 (Posted by an unknown user) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Someone reposted it here: http://never.draven.tripod.com/efw.htm
Comment #4 (Posted by muse) Rating: ratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
1) Most people misunderstand the intent of the EFW community. EFW is never about mocking everyone in a particular community, it's about mocking the stupid members of any given community who are often the most vocal ones on the Internet. EFW is also not about mocking particular people, it's about taking 2) Abe's comment was made with his personal journal in a community that has its own long standing practices, that thousands of fans decided to descend upon without any knowledge of the comm. People coming into EFW and judging it by one comment is the same thing as people coming into fandom and judging it by one particularly odd NC-17 Mary Sue kinky ship of two underage gay characters. 3) The entry was not deleted by LJ staff, but by the community's maintainer, as can be seen from a later post in the community. 4) Abe's a computer scientist, not a marketing guy! Give him a break. The beauty of LiveJournal's staff is that they hire the people with the most knowledge in their field and people who are absolutely passionate about LiveJournal. This sometimes means that the people, like many of the folks in fandom, don't have the best social skills 100% of the time; it also means that most of the staff have private lives on LiveJournal too.
Comment #5 (Posted by Mo) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingemptyratingempty Unrated
Unfortunately Muse, the question isn't about the purpose of EFW. What is being questioned is his decision to participate in a mocking community at a time when there were clearly problems with the users and the service at Livejournal. To some extent, he represents 6A & LJ, and because of that he needs to exercise more tact when updating or commenting. This is just part of the business world. Heck, it's even part of what I do as a teacher.
Comment #6 (Posted by Aimee) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Well done. This is far from being over. Thanks for getting such a well-written post out in the public domain. I have now closed down my LiveJournal account and moved to a self-hosted, self-controlled blog, free from the risk of idiotic censorship. I encourage everyone else to do the same. LiveJournal have gone too far this time.
Comment #7 (Posted by Leva Cygnet) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
If he wanted his comments to be private and not seen by fandom then he should have used a pseudonym. He posts official policy statements on Livejournal using the same handle. The point is that he DID make posts that were insulting and inflammatory. And quite frankly, if he doesn't have the social skills to interact with the public then there are lots and lots of other programmers out there who either can, or know when to keep their mouths shut.
Comment #8 (Posted by db) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingempty Unrated
Abe should know what a sockpuppet account is for by now. Instead he used his client facing work account to make his comment. That means he's unbelievably stupid or he meant for it to be seen. Either way it isn't good. No one minds that LJ has rules. People would simply like to know what they are and have them consistently enforced. I'm in the process of removing my presence there as I have no wish to support a service that holds me in contempt, accuses me of paedophilia, tries to fee me the line that sponsor ads aren't really ads, and can't manage to keep its server load balanced but can manage to add all manner of idiotic fake gifts to send to my friends..
Comment #9 (Posted by thedolphingirl) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Well done, and well said. I need to figure out how to create my own blog myself.
Comment #10 (Posted by Kels) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Also, muse, if they're having him make PR statements (which he frequently seems to) then they're clearly NOT hiring someone in their correct field for their job. Like db said, it isn't that hard to have a personal journal separate from the one he uses to make public announcements on LJ. If you want to gripe about customers, fine, but at least leave the store or take off your uniform first.
Comment #11 (Posted by sciencegeek) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingempty Unrated
I am all for Abe expressing his opinion, however to mock fandom (regardless of whether he was "Role playing" or not as per what the comm is for) using a journal that has been used to address these concerns of fiction vs reality isn't particularly professional. Ironically, the very comment that 'he is rping and may not reflect his personal views' is exactly what fandom has been saying re: fiction/rping vs reality and now it's coming back to bite Abe in the ass
Comment #12 (Posted by WriterZilch) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Agreed with you, sciencegeek. The "But's it's an RP, it's not REAL!" excuse rings hollow, unless they are willing to cede the same reality vs. fiction defense to the other side. I'm pretty sure it's not fandom who is unclear on what the differences between real and not-real are, here.
Comment #13 (Posted by Anna) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
There's just no excuse for Abe using the same account he uses when speaking for LiveJournal to mock customers. It doesn't matter the intent of the post or community in question. He's using his business face to do it. I'd have a lot more sympathy if he'd used a different personal account that somebody outed as being Abe's, but that's not what happened. LiveJournal should have a policy for employees that the accounts they use for professional communications are not also used for personal pursuits. There's no clear way to differentiate when an employee is wearing which hat without separate accounts. Accounts are cheap. It's a no brainer. If they don't have such a policy, that's impressively naive. If they do, Abe will probably be polishing his resume soon. Even without it, Abe has lost a significant amount of credibility and has shown amazingly bad judgment. It's not clear that his employment is of much value to LiveJournal going forward. Who would take his word seriously now?
Comment #14 (Posted by Journey) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Thumbs up to the article! I saved Abe's comments as both images and html files, because I guessed they would end up deleted. I've uploaded all the files here: http://until-yesterday.org/eljay/ You're welcome to link to that page, or any of the files separately.
Comment #15 (Posted by Spica) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Although I had originally entered the argument because fandom was being threatened, my reasons for speaking up turned into unsatisfied customer service. I expect professionalism and respect in public, where the customer can hear you, see you, etc. I don't care what your opinion is, and certainly I will not insult you if I knew. Mr Hassan insulted fandom in the public eye. Yes, EFW may be a mocking community. But was it stated on the profile? No. Were there rules, regulations, or any disclaimers of the sort? No. So as far as fandom knew, Mr Hassan was insulting them in the public eye and associating with pedophiles. So this is not fandom's fault for overreacting [although the spamming is, and we have not done that well, I'm sorry to say] but Mr Hassan's for his lack of professionalism.
Comment #16 (Posted by lj:Solarbird) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Thanks for writing this up; I feel similarly, only without the fandom connection you have. I used to write software for a Very Large Software Corporation in Redmond, Washington, and I was frankly rather astounded by the unprofessionalism of Abe's commentary in a public forum under an effectively official account. But the damage goes beyond that. One of the things I do (when not in class - grad school, yay) is make websites for nonprofits and community groups. Recently I've been using - and evangelising - Livejournal as a data-store back-end. I "query" the DB via tags and S2 code, embedding and formatting the entries as data at the website end via php includes and CSS. It's easy to write, works _great_ and makes updating the resulting website trivial for non-technical users, which is the biggest barrier to entry for any nontechnical organisation trying to run a website. And having been evangelising this, I now discover that Livejournal is perfectly comfortable with removing content and banning users permanently without warning or recourse, and, apparently, on the whim of a staffer or subset thereof. I've also discovered that LJ operations staff is more than willing to express their contempt of their customer base. I can't be the only one finding myself in this position. I'm very upset about it, and am now actively pursuing other solutions for the websites I've already built this way, and won't be building any more like this until I get an alternative solution set up. Every one of these I made - or that people I talked to about this methodology made - was another low-demand/low-bandwidth long-term paid account for Six Apart, and those are going to go away now, because off-site data stores need to have certain attributes. Key amoungst them is that you need to have confidence that they won't just throw away your data some day, particularly not on purpose, and particularly because somebody else didn't like what you were saving. Six Apart and Livejournal no longer merits that confidence. I don't know what they're trying to do here - I really can't fathom it - but I can't see any upside for them. All that's left is incompetence.
Comment #17 (Posted by Joshua) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
I have been dissatisfied with LJ's customer service since the strikethrough. If LJ doesn't want fandom, then FINE, but they need to tell fandom point-blank that they're persona non grata. If it's even just the smutty aspect of fandom they want gone, that needs to be stated up front. Mr. Hassan's behavior clinched it for me. I'm glad I didn't drop my guard and give LJ any money for their service. Because, if the customer service sucks... why should I pay them? I've canceled other services and stopped going to certain retail chains for their bad customer service; this is NO different.
Comment #18 (Posted by Heidi) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
If Hassan is allowed to answer the questions and concerns of users, as a representative of LJ, in the lj_biz and lj news threads, than he is serving as a public face/name for LJ customer services. This makes his later statements in EFW unfathomably inappropriate and unprofessional, no matter WHAT his usual job description is at LJ. Anyway, it is really just stupid to use the same lj screenname for both snarky, private sentiments and public statements on behalf of Livejournal. This has also been a deciding factor in my own move from LJ to Journalfen.
Comment #19 (Posted by Rachabeth) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Despite EFW's "purpose", Hassan's comment was still unprofessional. If he wanted to mock the users in private or under a different name, that is perfectly fine - we all are guilty of frustration with customers from time to time, and the behavior of some fandomers was nothing short of embarrassing and rude. But to show such disrespect to the users, people who PAYING for the site, is foolish and unbecoming of any professional, especially when the users are awaiting a solid answer on the ToS. I, for one, am not giving 6A another dime. I don't support bad business.
Comment #20 (Posted by buckymarauder) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Just goes to show, 6A needs to devote actual marketing/PR professionals to all of this. Livejournal's customer support has never been that great, but ever since the 6A takeover, it's been going downhill. I agree that Hassan can't claim that "it was roleplaying, it's not real" is a valid excuse, unless he (and LJ) is willing to accept that excuse from the people who draw or write the sort of things they'd like to ban.
Comment #21 (Posted by Misty) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Many people here have said it more eloquently than I ever could. Mr. Hassan was wrong to mock fandom using his well-known figurehead account. That's just stupid, unprofessional and I hope he gets fired, which I doubt he will. Also, this article is amazing and basically sums up everything I'm feeling and thinking. You fail LJ.
Comment #22 (Posted by Megan) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingempty Unrated
I'm disgusted by the lack of decent professional courtesy Six Apart has shown. Abe Hassan is of course entitled to think that customers are overreacting, but to say it in plain view on the site that he works for and they are customers of-- regardless of the community purpose as a joke and how long he was a member there-- is simply unprofessional. It's the equivalent of doing it while on the clock and in the middle of the business. At the very least, he could have done the blogging equivalent of taking it to the break room and done his mockery in a friends-locked post in his own journal. Your blog is not your private space when it's open to the public, you work for the company that owns the service, and you're blogging under your known face at the company. It reflects on you and your company no matter how many disclaimers you put up that it doesn't. Must be nice to have a customer service job where you can insult the customers to their faces and face no reprecussions-- sign me up to work at Six Apart, because I'd love to be able to get away with that in my current customer service job.
Comment #23 (Posted by C) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Any other employee of any other business who publicly mocked their customers or clients would be summarily terminated, and burr86 should be as well. This is terribly unprofessional behavior. And when is LJ ever going to hire an actual PR person? It's clear their PR skills are nonexistent.
Comment #24 (Posted by Clare) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
I completely agree with this post. Thank you for making the points I've been trying to make, except more clearly and logically!
Comment #25 (Posted by S) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingempty Unrated
RE: the idea that people who were upset didn't understand efw: I've been a member there for some time, now. I nonetheless immediately saw Abe's remarks to be in extremely poor judgement. I responded "in character" for the comm, disparaging him in a highly-abstract manner, but I don't begrudge those people who expressed their anger more directly. Openly mocking the people who you are supposed to be serving as a spokesperson of a business is obnoxious, and the fact that he did it in a comm that engages in a specific form of mockery as a matter of course hardly makes his words ok.
Comment #26 (Posted by ladynorbert) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Right on! I've linked to this article from my LiveJournal. I'm not abandoning the site, but I am definitely no longer paying for their so-called service. I'm staying there, however, out of loyalty -- not to them, but to my friends. I was really quite shocked about this most recent lack of etiquette on the part of an LJ employee; on the other hand, the last time this went down, another employee bitched us out on a separate website. So I don't know why anyone is really surprised; we've seen from experience that LJ/SA employees lack consideration for their customers.
Comment #27 (Posted by C. McCoy) Rating: ratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
So you complain that 6A is censoring fan-level "artists," but everyone is now seeking to censor Burr86 for speaking his mind away from LJnews, in a community that clearly doesn't profess to be connected to official LJ releases in any way? I thought that censorship was a bad thing? :) Isn't that what this whole "issue" is about? :)
Comment #28 (Posted by Tibicina) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
The post was removed by a moderator of the community it was on who felt that it was not appropriate to the community. She hadn't known what was going on until she woke up to a link to it from a friend. Which I only know because I happened to see her comment going WTF?
Comment #29 (Posted by Yonmei) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
I left LiveJournal last year because it was evident even then that Six Apart regards the people who post content on their website - the journallers - as product, not as customers: Six Apart's customers are the advertisers. Nevertheless, it is interesting that Six Apart are no longer even pretending to provide "customer service" to the people foolish enough to pay them to host their journals.
Comment #30 (Posted by an unknown user) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Thank You. I was rather on the fence about all of this until I saw Burr86's very unprofessional comments last night. If I had done that at my job I would be fired.
Comment #31 (Posted by John House) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Perhaps people should also be looking at Abe's comments in this thread here: http://violet-quill.livejournal.com/326507.html?thread=4204139#t4204139 In it, he states that: "If it's "hmmm, this is probably in violation, but maybe not 100%" -- and honestly, those cases are *really* rare -- then what happens is a "temporary" suspend. Temporary because it's not a clear violation of the policy, suspension just because we want to err on the side of caution and remove it from public view. And what happens in those cases is that you'll get an email saying "hey, this is still a violation, but not unambiguously so. please delete it and we'll unsuspend you ASAP.""...except that is NOT what happened in either ponderosa or elaboration's cases. They were permanently suspended without warning or chance to fix the offending posts. Hassan will have much, much more to answer to once more people read that thread on violet_quill's LJ.
Comment #32 (Posted by jbackhere) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Abe Hassan must go, or LJ/SA has absolutely no credibility as a professional organization. Were he mocking, even in "roleplay" any other group (such as racial, sexual orientation, religion), he would be on the public BBQ. But fandom is viewed as silly. So he thinks it's okay. Well, it's not. They are paying customers of a service that actively courted them when they were struggling and needed their money. Further, Livejournal lacks the business smarts to make a decision and back it up, risking a loss of revenue. I can't see how Barak and his Bigot Brigade are going to BS their way out of this one, but the fact is that they will have ZERO credibility with Abe Hassan on staff. Oh, Abe, honey...I bet it seemed funny at the time, didn't it? You schmuck.
Comment #33 (Posted by Michael) Rating: ratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
Uh, maybe it's because I'm not a part of this incredibly bizarre subculture, but I don't get it. What is so insulting about his comment?
Comment #34 (Posted by Allika) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingempty Unrated
C. McCoy - Look at it this way. Say you were a waiter for a group of Stephen King enthusiasts, and you say loudly, in the hearing of your customers, that you hate Stephen King and thinks everyone who reads his novels is an idiot, with your boss standing right there. Hassan can say whatever he wants, and we can, in return, be angry about what he says, like those who are insulted with racial slurs react angrily (not that I'm comparing insulting fandom to insulting a racial group). We are also protesting a lack of professionalism on his part. If that waiter had said the same thing on the street, there would be insulted looks, perhaps, but if the waiter is serving customers, he is representing the restaurant he works for, as Hassan is representing LJ/6A. I apologize for the analogy.
Comment #35 (Posted by Alex) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
You've just put my thoughts into coherent words. Thank you.
Comment #36 (Posted by an unknown user) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingemptyratingempty Unrated
Except he wasn't saying he didn't like Harry Potter, he was stressing the nature of the banning in what has been stressed over and over in a post dedicated towards that. LJ/6A... they're not attacking fandom, they're going after participants in fandom who depict gratuitous, sexual encounters with minors in fictional situations (which, while not wholly illegal in the US, is illegal in a good number of other countries). The method was, yet again, wrong, but their reasoning and right to do that is not infringing on the right to free speech. If you had a website that you may or may not give the --option-- to pay for services, or use them for free, and decided that you didn't want a particular subject/matter of content on there, would you view that as a deterimental slam to freedom of speech in the world? Probably not. While the anger is understood, at the same time people are scapegoating (this is no different than chasing celebrities, or closer to home, BNFs, for saying distasteful) single individuals. Fandom lost major points when they started to whine to a point that people started burning merchandise from LiveJournal IN THEIR HOMES after a long, flouncing narrative about how their freedom of speech and art is being destroyed on account of one lone website.
Comment #37 (Posted by Puchu) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingempty Unrated
Y'know, I work in a store. Haven't done so for long, but I make sure I smile from the moment I see a customer to the moment they're out of sight, even if they're angry about something or being ass-wipes. Even if, like today, my wrist was ruined and it hurt to even move it, and I had the headache from hell because of the heat. Or like two weeks ago, when I had an inflammation in my gums and were on drugs so strong I almost didn't know who I was, and I *still* hurt (that one eventually put me out of action for two days, though, puking, shivering and with goosebumps so bad my skin ached for hours afterwards). Even if there isn't anything else you can do, being polite and attentive will make a difference when dealing with your customers, and can be the deciding factor in whether they return or not. You do not need a degree to know this. In fact, I find it rather pathetic that lj hasn't realized that fact after so many years, when I understood it after two days at work. If Mr. Hassan has such a hard time dealing with customers, he should expect the worst. My motto: Do not expect a customer to see you as a fellow human being. Then you'll be pleasantly surprised when one of them actually does. I haven't been to active in lj lately, but I think I'm gonna have to contemplate deleting my account completely. Which is kinda sad. I though lj were more liberal than certain other annoying sites... *sigh*
Comment #38 (Posted by Cryo) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
I agree that burr86 is allowed to have a private opinion, but in that case he should be using a private account to express it. Using the same handle that he also uses to post to lj_biz is like mocking customers inside the store while wearing a store uniform. Very poor form - if I did that, you can bet I'd be fired. As for the overall kerfluffle, what bothers me here is not so much that the artists in question were ToS'd, but the reason for which they were ToS'd. As I understand it, the posts in question were public -- and news flash, publicly posted adult content has always been against the LJ ToS. If that had been the reason they were nailed, I wouldn't have batted an eye. However, the artists were instead terminated for "posting artworks with no redeeming artistic merit of underage characters in sexual situations" (paraphrased). This bothers me -- previously, 6A had said they were following US legal guidelines about adult content, and in the US, completely fictional works about underage sexuality are not currently illegal so long as no real minors are involved. When asked outright, "would 6A have a problem with underage characters in fanfic/fanart?", they said no. I understand fanworks have always existed on shaky ground, so if 6A doesn't want us on their site, we'd be happy to leave. They just need to communicate that clearly.
Comment #39 (Posted by carondelet) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
That burr86 chose to use that particular LJ account to make a comment in EFW wasn't the best move for a public LJ employee -- granted; however, his conversation with violet_quill is much more enlightening and demonstrate that he *was* at least willing to discuss the goings on, even if only on a hypothetical and non-official basis. That being written, his conversation in violet_quill's thread is allmost as detrimental, in a way, to the is it faux?/it is real? mockery that occurred as a comment in the EFW community. The TOS policies that burr86 references are not, according to ponderosa121 or elaboration, what occurred to them, which seems to me to be the root of much of the rumbling. After the hamfisted handling of Strikethrough, and the seemingly covert 6A/LJ actions happening now with Boldthrough, I as an LJ user (paying one at that, just felt it ought to be noted), would like to know categorically what is permissible and what isn't. An update of the LJ TOS has been in order since Strikethrough. While LJ does reserve the right to remove posts, communities, and users at any time without warning (part of the existing TOS), they also state that they will provide the allegedly offending user with warning so that action may be taken without affecting that user's account. You can have one statement exist alongside the other, but some qualification is needed for the users. deviantART updates its TOS on almost a weekly basis; while I don't agree with the at time inconsistent application/enforcement of the dA TOS, I am still a member (but no longer a paying one). I imagine the same will happen for me with regard to LJ; because there is value for me in its services, and because I enjoy the majority of the communities and users there, I will remain a member, but no longer a paying one. LJ needs to update the TOS and they should make some sort of statement (generic, if only) regarding the permabans and account suspensions. It may go a bit of the way towards stemming the tide of growing bad publicity and mass spammage of the news, biz, and other LJ-centric communities on LJ itself.
Comment #40 (Posted by Lella) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
http://community.livejournal.com/innocence_jihad/166634.html
Comment #41 (Posted by MrDave) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingempty Unrated
Actually, TOS policy on refunds is kind of irrelevant. It is a similar situation as with cell phojne companies and such. It truly falls to the revised code of the state they operate in. That is why larger companies can easily turn their service from one source to another by exposing a shortcoming ion the service they are paying for. It only takes the time to find the right sectionof the code and make a case in yoru favor. LJ could be in for a large set of refunds if the masses do their homework.
Comment #42 (Posted by sblj) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
The article brings a lot into focus. Some folks don't see what's wrong with banning fan fiction while others don't see why the other side isn't upset at what they perceive as First Amendment Rights' violations.<br> I can differentiate between real life and fantasy characters. I know the difference between right and wrong. In my fan fiction, I work through my own emotional battles using made-up characters. I also have two college degrees and a job. Within all of that, I think a safe harbor isn't a silly idea; yet, here's a company torpedoing itself by attacking a group that is made up of fairly intelligent people, often university-educated. Doesn't this strike anyone as odd that such dumb actions are not being revised and clarified yet?
Comment #43 (Posted by Mythor) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
This, sadly, is not the first time he has posted unprofessional remarks in response to these issues. And the long delays between actions like this (the latest round of suspensions) and official responses being available is wholly unacceptable and they (LJ/6A) were told it was unacceptable last time. And of course the issue of whether a couple of bits of fan-art represent a greater threat than other communities which are allowed to continue unmolested - the mountain of "pro-ana" for example - has never been addressed. It's a mess. However to blame SixApart for this is probably not entirely fair. LiveJournal was a mess long before 6A bought them out and this is really nothing more than a continuation of what went before.
Comment #44 (Posted by yeh) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingemptyratingempty Unrated
correct me if i've misunderstood something here. fandom, which i've lurked on for many years, wants to be able to have the right to say what they want to say and discuss the things they want to discuss? So how is jumping on someone elses' opinion that you may not like showing them anything? You are pretty much doing the same thing that six apart is doing to you. Being able to discuss whatever(and no I didn't like it either but he has a right to an opinion) should really not be limited to just fandom. It's kind of reversing the whole situation with them which I find interesting. I'm def against what's being done but articles like these and the way I've seen some people gang up on each other in fandom, really don't do anything to help our case. Sorry but it doesn't. Yeah he was a six apart employee-so it's a little more serious. Then again, the issue everyone seems to be fighting over is who is and who is not censored. What is and what is not acceptable. Just because his opinions unpopular doesn't demonize him. Just like the harry potter art shouldn't alienate/demonize the artists. Its his personal journal. Who made you all the thought police there? You don't want anyone doing that to you do you?
Comment #45 (Posted by Leva Cygnet) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
It's not that he isn't entitled to an opinion. It's that he expressed the opinion publicly, in what is effectively his workplace, using his the same account he uses for official statements and to discuss company policy. He mocked fans who feel that this is a very serious issue rather than issuing any sort of policy statement. The root of the problem is that Livejournal is being very unclear and inconsistent with their policies, and when fans guess wrong about what is allowed based on information that Livejournal (including Hassan) have provided, the penalties are apparently immediate termination without warning or appeal. I'm sorry, that's not acceptable customer service. And instead of making a clear policy statement (and he is one of the people who makes policy statements) he makes fun of those of us who are demanding to know what the rules are. THAT is why I wrote this article. And I note that, to date, Livejournal has STILL not clarified what is, and is not, acceptable.
Comment #46 (Posted by Suzene) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Oh, it gets better. It seems that LJ abuse considers pro-anorexia communities to be protected under freedom of expression, but apparently that protection doesn't extend to material that LJ Abuse itself has already determined to be legal, just without the oft-mentioned "artistic merit". http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241428.html?thread=12329748#t12329748 It's like someone just handed them a shovel and told them to just keep digging.
Comment #47 (Posted by sovayfox) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
The comments from LJ staffers are tracked here. This shows their support for hate groups and PRO-anorexia communities http://aura218.livejournal.com/39160.html?view=94712
Comment #48 (Posted by zaphraud) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
As a strong proponent of free speech, I am compelled to remind you that LiveJournal.com has the right to dictate what its own servers will contain, and decide accordingly, without policing what its officers say in a manner that runs totally contrary to the nature of the website itself. This is LiveJournal, not the New York Times. I expect real human beings who act like real human beings, and the screenshots I've seen just makes me respect SixApart that much more for their hilarious stance on this issue.
Comment #49 (Posted by an unknown user) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Class action lawsuit, anyone? They are begging for it.
Comment #50 (Posted by Paul Ingati) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
LiveJournal cannot run away from the fact that they need to honour their deal with paying customers who purchased accounts under the belief that they allow adult materials. Any policy change needs to be effected pnly after wide and satisfactory consultations
Comment #51 (Posted by Nanashi) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Unfortunately zaphraud, you're completely missing the point. This isn't about Free Speech and it never has been: it has always been about poor customer service that would have cost the guilty parties their jobs anywhere else. The complaints are that the ToS is ambiguous -- which it is -- and that what is already there is not being enforced with an even hand -- which they are not. You can't even say anymore that it's unethical but legal, now that California law dictates that they have a concise ToS and that it is THEIR responsibility to inform customers of changes in their policies. As for Hassan, as others have already explained, an employee who complains about bad customers on the street and out of company uniform is one thing, but that same employee complaining at work and in company uniform is another matter entirely. Hassan did the latter. I'm not even in fandom myself and even I'm unsatisfied at this unprofessionalism and lack of customer courtesy. I don't believe he should be terminated, but both he and 6A owe their customers an apology, and Hassan needs to take off his virtual uniform when he vents. It is hardly unreasonable to insist on being treated like a paying customer when you are one. You wouldn't put up with this kind of thing at a department store, so why would you be willing to put up with it here?
Comment #52 (Posted by Felice) Rating: ratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
What I've seen of "fandoms" on Livejournal they should be mocked and more. Live journal is a BLOG, not a haven for idiots churning out their execrable fanfics that even dross bins like fanfiction.net wont' accept. Grow the hell up
Comment #53 (Posted by devdaron) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
What I can't help but wonder is what happened to this guy? It just so happens that LJ has gotten a new member person, so I wonder if there is a connection?
Comment #54 (Posted by an unknown user) Rating: ratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
The inability of fandom to grow a sense of humor continues to amaze me. Even after all this time, that so many people feel -attacked- by an offhand joke in a community DESIGNED FOR THE PURPOSE floors me.
Comment #55 (Posted by ANONYMOUS) Rating: ratingfullratingemptyratingemptyratingemptyratingempty Unrated
OMFG UR RIGHT CP SHOULD TOTALLY BE ALLOWED IT'S DRAWN IN FELT TIP PEN SO IT'S ALLOWED, AMIRITE?
Comment #56 (Posted by MM) Rating: ratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfullratingfull Unrated
Ah, another anon who can't tell the difference between real children and pictures of known-to-be-fictional teenaged characters. I can see how this might be upsetting to people who aren't very bright.


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