The Purity Police and Fanfic
- By Leva Cygnet
- Published 05/30/2007
- Fandom
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Numerous Livejournal communities deleted
I write fanfiction and I have done so for twenty years. I am quite comfortable with the moral ground my own stories cover but I suspect the Purity Police might see things differently were they to read my stories. Off the top of my head, I can think of several areas they might find problematic in my own fiction.
I have teenagers having sex in my stories, because teenagers do. Teenagers without hormones? This would sorta be unrealistic.
I have a pedophile in some of stories ... a bad guy ... who eventually gets his head lopped off by a very pissed off Immortal. Before he does, however, there's a scene with a fourteen year old girl that also involves quite a bit of alcohol. In a certain light, this could be seen as gratuitous, but the scene is there for a reason: I wanted to show one way that pedophiles operate, and I wanted to show what was going through the girl's head as well.
Truthfully, I have multiple sex scenes in various stories -- I don't write extremely explicit sex(*) but sometimes specific details are necessary for forwarding the plot so I don't necessarily fade to black.
In my fic I have one male/male relationship with one of the characters being slightly underage by our (US) laws because he is seventeen. I have one story that has a humorous but somewhat graphic opening involving coitus interruptus between a human and a demon who are engaged to be married. I also once wrote a joke fic that involved e-mails between most of the characters of Disney's Gargoyles -- and let's just say the innuendo was rampant and silly and multi-layered and the fic was very well received. And that's just a quick list off the top of my head.
I maintain all of my stories have artistic merit -- generally, I have a point for what I write (though the joke fic was purely for entertainment value!) -- but the Purity Police could well see things differently.
It would be very easy for the Purity Police to misrepresent the content of my stories and twist my intent around to look like something nasty and evil.
The link above for Pornish-Pixies is about a fanfic community that was deleted because of incest fics. While incest fanfic isn't my cup of tea, stories about incest can have artistic merit.
I can think of one or two Supernatural Wincest stories which have been recced to me and which deal with the topic in an intelligent manner. I am not going to link to it, but one I am specifically thinking of covers other character's reactions to Wincest. It was a very thought provoking story. If both adults are adults and consenting, does society have any business dictating what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms?
I'm not going to answer that question right now (that's a blog for another day) but the story argued both sides of the coin and quite successfully, too.
Pornish-Pixies was deleted for incest, but it seems some other communities have been targeted for sexual content involving underage characters. Not, mind, real people, but fictional characters. While I am one of the first people to stand up and protest stories advocating pedophilia or which portray sexual activity between very-much-older characters and minors (chan), some of the stories on these communities had to do with teenagers and didn't deserve deletion.
There's a world of difference between a six year old and a sixteen year old. I suspect that true kiddy porn involving stories about small children would have been met with open hostility on most of the communities targeted. I was not a member of any of the communities and so I can't say for sure, but I know fandom and fanfic writers in general well enough to predict the response. (There may have been some specific exceptions judging by the names of the communities but they'd be the exception, not the rule.)
I have teenagers having sex in my stories, because teenagers do. Teenagers without hormones? This would sorta be unrealistic.
I have a pedophile in some of stories ... a bad guy ... who eventually gets his head lopped off by a very pissed off Immortal. Before he does, however, there's a scene with a fourteen year old girl that also involves quite a bit of alcohol. In a certain light, this could be seen as gratuitous, but the scene is there for a reason: I wanted to show one way that pedophiles operate, and I wanted to show what was going through the girl's head as well.
Truthfully, I have multiple sex scenes in various stories -- I don't write extremely explicit sex(*) but sometimes specific details are necessary for forwarding the plot so I don't necessarily fade to black.
In my fic I have one male/male relationship with one of the characters being slightly underage by our (US) laws because he is seventeen. I have one story that has a humorous but somewhat graphic opening involving coitus interruptus between a human and a demon who are engaged to be married. I also once wrote a joke fic that involved e-mails between most of the characters of Disney's Gargoyles -- and let's just say the innuendo was rampant and silly and multi-layered and the fic was very well received. And that's just a quick list off the top of my head.
I maintain all of my stories have artistic merit -- generally, I have a point for what I write (though the joke fic was purely for entertainment value!) -- but the Purity Police could well see things differently.
The link above for Pornish-Pixies is about a fanfic community that was deleted because of incest fics. While incest fanfic isn't my cup of tea, stories about incest can have artistic merit.
I can think of one or two Supernatural Wincest stories which have been recced to me and which deal with the topic in an intelligent manner. I am not going to link to it, but one I am specifically thinking of covers other character's reactions to Wincest. It was a very thought provoking story. If both adults are adults and consenting, does society have any business dictating what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms?
I'm not going to answer that question right now (that's a blog for another day) but the story argued both sides of the coin and quite successfully, too.
Pornish-Pixies was deleted for incest, but it seems some other communities have been targeted for sexual content involving underage characters. Not, mind, real people, but fictional characters. While I am one of the first people to stand up and protest stories advocating pedophilia or which portray sexual activity between very-much-older characters and minors (chan), some of the stories on these communities had to do with teenagers and didn't deserve deletion.
There's a world of difference between a six year old and a sixteen year old. I suspect that true kiddy porn involving stories about small children would have been met with open hostility on most of the communities targeted. I was not a member of any of the communities and so I can't say for sure, but I know fandom and fanfic writers in general well enough to predict the response. (There may have been some specific exceptions judging by the names of the communities but they'd be the exception, not the rule.)
Spread The Word
Comments
Comment #1 (Posted by aishuu)
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Seems like you caught my blog. ^_^
What REALLY gets me is that I can see the EXACT scenario you talk about. I don't have any interest in shota but I can see it spreading.
Also the ads by google? Due to the content of this article, it's offering me Russian GIRLS Video and Juvenile Sex addiction.
Comment #2 (Posted by thedorkygirl)
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Here via a google news search. You raise a lot of good points and tell me one (hugely important) thing that I did not know -- pornish_pixies was flocked & invite only.
Comment #3 (Posted by Isis)
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WfI claim that, yes, they did report LJs and communites, but they only reported those with "actual" pedophile content, nothing fandom related (despite admitting that they have no clue about fandom), not survivors.
LJ Abuse on the other hand claims that they've only suspended accounts that were reported.
So, at least one of them isn't telling the truth.
Comment #4 (Posted by Liz Enser (setsunamoriarty on LJ))
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I'd just like to mention, in case any LJ users or concerned parties happen this way:
Lunaticsocko started a petiton over this nonsense, which can be found here:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/MLJS
Just thought I'd spread the word.
Comment #5 (Posted by Zanne)
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Thank you for such a level-headed reaction and summary of what's really going on. As far as underage sex goes, why don't they go after Stephen King? (Have you ever read "It"?) A minor could get his or her hands on that book just as easily, if not easier. Plenty of other books have rape, incest, and underage sex, and they're accepted among general fiction. Some are even classics. Including the Bible. Who draws the line, and where? And there are series which have incest as an actual part of the plot. HBO's "Carnivale" had heavily implied brother/sister incest. "Angel Sanctuary"'s main plotline IS brother/sister incest. And then there's "Flowers in the Attic". Again I ask, who draws the line?
Comment #6 (Posted by spice)
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Wow, fast response. I agree wholeheartedly, thanks for being a rational voice in all the craziness!
Also, go Firefox!
Comment #7 (Posted by barano)
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It seems from WfI's site that initially LJ didn't want to comply - they only did when WfI notified LJ's sponsors about illegal content on the pages their ads appear on. It seems that it was due to this that LJ started the "killing spree," removing anything that could possibly be dangerous for them.
While understandable from a purely business point of view, this doesn't make the way LJ is handling this whole issue any better, though.
Comment #8 (Posted by Leva Cygnet)
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Regarding WfI's note that the ad sponsors were "shocked" by what they found ... I take that with a huge grain of salt. I have personally reported sites that were violating TOS to Google. (Not for porn, but for other things that impacted *this* site.) You get a canned response. Google does not comment on your complaint. I highly doubt any of the other advertisers do so, either. If they did get a personal response it likely was a very professional one.
Additionally, I highly doubt that anyone working TOS compliance for Google Adsense would be "shocked" by much.
Aishuu -- I think your blog was the first I saw, but the crap started hitting the fan right after I read it and half my feeds and my flists lit up with it. It's a big story and it's going to get bigger.
(I'm off now to prod a few bigger, more notable bloggers and see if I can spread the word more.)
Comment #9 (Posted by Cassandra)
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Just wanted to thank you for such an intelligent and purposeful response to this debaucle -- and those of us on LJ who are in some way affected appreciate the support. :)
Comment #10 (Posted by anza)
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Thank you for posting such a concise and articulate argument. Because these things always start small, and if overlooked will eventually spread to every aspect of our particpation on the internet.
Comment #11 (Posted by Reader)
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This is an exellent article but you have one error in here: Pornish was not f-locked. It was invitation only as far as writers and artists were concerned, but 99% of the entries were public and accessible by anyone who ventured by. Friends-locking is impractical on an invitation-only LJ community, because members would be the only ones who could see the material. I don't know how many posting members PP had, but it was certainly less than 300-400 people. The comm had over 4000 watchers, and the extra 3600-3700 people would not have been able to see any of the fic or art had the posts been f-locked.
Comment #12 (Posted by Icarus)
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Thank you for a well-written and intelligent article on the subject. This is a very dangerous trend.
Comment #13 (Posted by Sarashay)
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Yes, a fine and lovely example of the massive Missing Of The Point that has been running rampant in the fanfic community. I don't condone what these people have done, but try to understand their objection was not to porny fanfic--it was to journals and communities by and for ACTUAL REAL LIFE PEDOPHILES. Not people writing Harry/Draco slash. The massive deletion of fanfic communities (though a number of the communities weren't even deleted by LJ, but by the owners, out of panic) can be best described as 'collateral damage'. Is it right? No. But these people don't actually give a damn about your silly fanfic, they're too busy being riled up about the REAL pedophiles who were apparently using LiveJournal freely to exchange information and reassure themselves that they're perfectly normal for wanting to rape children. In. Real. Life. I think LJ is handling this BADLY, don't get me wrong, but don't kid yourself that this really has anything to DO with fanfic, other than being affected by the blowback.
Comment #14 (Posted by Chibihalo)
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I'm afraid in the post Don Imus world in which we now live in people are more swayed by the mighty advertising dollar than they are their own sense of morals and decency. The only reason anything was done to Imus was because of the fact that the people who carried his program were threatened with a loss of advertising revenue. That is what's happening here in the case of Livejournal. They are very open about who advertises on their site and how those ads are seen. They have an entire community dedicated just to the ad space on their own site. I have been occasionally venturing outside the confines of my friends page over on Livejournal and the fear and panic that is being spread is growing like wildfire. People are rushing to clean out their list of interests and at the worst suspending their journals and communities because they're afraid someone will do a search for interests that include certain words and they'll become a part of a blanket reporting. Fandom members are up in arms because one of the most watched Harry Potter fan creation communities got suspended without a single word as to why. This is becoming the internet version of the Florida wildfires where one posting from someone in a little watched journal gets linked to in large communities and panic and fear ensue. The fandom people need to calm down and step away from the computer and not make things any worse for themselves. No official word from Livejournal has non fandom people just as concerned and if they don't think this will make legitimate print press then I point people's attention to the "Nipple-gate" issue last year getting a resounding jeer from Health magazine in recent months. You have a great article here. Thank you for a calm voice in the choppy waters that is the internet.
Comment #15 (Posted by nerrek)
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Thank you for writing this.
Comment #16 (Posted by Rubyfruit)
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While I'm relieved to see that communities that I own, as well as some I frequent, haven't been deleted, I'm appauled at what has happened to others.
This article is very enlightening. Thank you!
Comment #17 (Posted by an unknown user)
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Their isn't a federal age of consent. Depending on what state you're in the age of consent can be as low as 16 and the "close in age exceptions" make sex between teenages and young adults legal in most states if their ages are close enough together.
Lets not forget that those fics based on Japanese shows deal with a country whose's age of consent is only 13.
Comment #18 (Posted by an unknown user)
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I've heard that one of the ways the WfI targeted LJ blogs was the use of the word "Lolita". Not only does this stop literary discussions, but I suppose if you're one of the many women NAMED Lolita you're automatically suspect.... (Yes, it's a fairly common name, and is also a nickname for Dolores.)
Comment #19 (Posted by spike)
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Thanks for reporting this. I love firefox.
Now, as for the meat of the matter, there is a quasi-anti-porn group behind this stuff: goto
http://roaring.livejournal.com to read up on that.
Censorship is not new to the blog scene. Yahell 360 has been banning folks for years for a lot less than.
I am opposed to censorship.
If people are concerned about what children are being exposed to on the net-- then let them monitor their childrens' useage.
The computer is the new babysitter.
I myself had my voice "taken away" from a yahoo group about tbi survivor stuff cuz of my email addy being from
"resistant-witches dot com."
The risk of having freedom of expression is that there will be stuff out there that one does not agree with nor care to read.
The back button still works.
spike
Comment #20 (Posted by Julie)
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My long running community, a support group for survivors of sexual abuse, was one of the groups shut down. I myself am a child sexual abuse survivor and am studying to become a psychologist specializing in treating abuse victims. I feel bad for people whose journals were deleted just because they wrote fanfic, but I feel destroying groups who exist to support abuse victims or to fight paedophila is utterly despicable. I know that my group has helped bring paedophiles to justice by encouraging victims to go the the police, and supporting them through the legal proceedings.
I strongly feel that the woman who calls herself 'Warriors for Justice' (apparently it is one woman with her brother helping out, not a organization) is deeply misguided and has actively helped paedophiles, by destroying many longrunning and successful anti-paedo groups, and by giving padeo groups warning and by having proof of their crimes removed, rather than doing what any intelligent, trained person would do, and report them to the authorities.
This is sad example of how one naive person can destroy a lot of good work.
Comment #21 (Posted by Rabe)
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Beautifully worded!
Comment #22 (Posted by Emily)
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THANK YOU.
What really gets me--besides the deletion of these fic communities--is that SURVIVOR groups (like the one that Julie, another commentor mentioned) were shut down, as was a Spanish-language community devoted to discussing Nabokov's Lolita. Unless these "Warriors for Ignorance" are particularly well-read and multi-lingual, I seriously doubt that they were as thorough in their hunt for those who "deserved it" as they claim.
Comment #23 (Posted by an unknown user)
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WFI went after the advertizers? Remember the good times just a year or two ago when LJ was wholly user-sponsored, no advertizements...
Comment #24 (Posted by joannakuang)
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thank you for giving us your views and thoughts on this topic.
Comment #25 (Posted by Anthony)
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Julie worded it beautifully. In causing this debacle, WFI may have made it that much easier for real criminals to get away with their crimes. I don't care what your intentions are, if your actions cause harm to countless innocents and impedes with the ability of respectable organizations to do their job, then you have both failed
in your objective and made things that much worse for the rest of us.
And for that WFI should be ashamed of themselves.
But then again, people like this rarely feel shame, just as they rarely feel anything positive. They are so fanatical in their pursuits that they will often destroy anyone in their path. And the article is right. What's to stop them from targeting other aspects of society because they feel they present a danger to kids? Or worse, just because they feel like it? It's easy to mask your dislike behind a cloud of rhetoric.
Don't like erotica? Say it encourages perverse behavior. Don't approve of sex education, because of your own sexual issues? Say it encourages teens to to expose themselves to disease and early pregnancy (as if plenty of "faithful" adults don't do that on their own). Don't like porn? Says it objectifies women and creates sexual predators. Don't like teenagers written as real people in stories, hormones and all? Again, say it encourages sexual predators. Don't like women exploring their sexuality? Say it undermines their self-esteem and makes them view themselves as sexual objects.
You see? It's all too easy to use your personal dislikes as the fuel source for an oppressive campaign, as long as it invokes the "greater good". That's what countless oppressive societies have done throughout history. That's what the puritans did all those centuries ago. And yet we never learn.
I'm all for going after pedophiles and people who are dangerous to our communities. But there has to be common sense involved in it. You can't just target everybody and hope you net one or two offenders, just because you feel like it. You have to be fair to other people because they have the same rights that you do. Right now, I bet this woman would be furious if I stereotyped all Christians as deluded monsters who are terrified of sex and want to enslave all of us with their moral code. But I'm not going to do that because I know it's not true. Most Christians aren't like that. They're good people who follow a particular faith, and do it harmlessly. Likewise, most of those people suspended on LJ probably weren't doing anything wrong. They were innocent bystanders who got caught in the middle of one woman and her brother's delusional power trip.
Comment #26 (Posted by Sephira jo)
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Thank you for the well written and concise thoughts on the whole matter. As both a fanfic author *and* an abuse survivor I'm lucky the deletion was only kept to keywords. (Most of which I actually had on my journal at one point...)
Not all my fanfiction features hardcore sex, in fact the older I get the less often I write it, but enough of it has and does and some of it most likely turns stomachs.
I try to stay out of speculation relationships though and write those who are supported by canon. I have Kenshin/Kaoru fics for the most part and I've written a couple of Lolifics, one was a coming of age story, the other had to deal with student teacher relationship. The relationship was portrayed as being unhealthy and the sex scene in that one was more artistic than smutty. (The underage character in question believes what she's going through is a fever dream.)
Had they plowed through tags, keywords and entries, my journal most likely would've been one of the many to bite the dust. Where the line is drawn is a viable question and I find myself hoping that LJ has learned from this debacle. Though I don't think they have...
Which means the political blog I was going to open there is currently looking for a new host. >___>
Comment #27 (Posted by an unknown user)
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Like to point out that the age of consent is sixteen or even fourteen in many european countries so things written in those countries, which would seem perfectly normal to the writers, would count as "kiddie porn" to these vigilanties.
I understand that they want the laws of their land obeyed but it's impractical to extend them to people in other countries posting online.
Also even under the new proposed obscenity laws in Britain (unsure if they went through) which were pretty strict, written fiction and pictures that weren't trying to be realistic were left out, is the law different in the US?